Stat maxing

[meth962]

Hrm I may have more work cut out for me. I remember noting that they do a check if your level is 16 or less. I have to go explore that path because I bet they calculate your stat increases slightly different.

Also, it seems by the starting stats, that I might have the wrong value for Vahn's INT and LDF. It looks like they're Noa's since her's start at 9 int and 12 ldf but when I started a new game, that is what Vahn had:

HP 180 MP 20
ATK 24 SPD 19
UDF 16 INT 9
LDF 12 AGL 100

Which now also makes me question what Noa's stating stats are. Does anyone have that handy? I might have to double check my work xD

[Sephirothansylar]

Amazingly I have a save exactly when I got Noa, so just had to load it up and SS it for you.

[Nightshade]

A few of questions relating to speedrunning:

First: Are the stat gains independent at each level? Put another way, does getting a good level change the likelihood that I get another good level for the following level?

Second: Does anyone have the precise cutoffs as far as how much AGL is required to use X art blocks, both with and without Spirit / Fury Boosts? I know that it's close to 30 per block without Spirit and 21 per block without, but if someone has more precise cutoffs, I would appreciate that.

[meth962]

Thanks Seph! That confirms my doubts, they don't use the values in the table...and now I wonder if starting stats are random. Do you happen to have one when you get Gala? Not as big of a deal though so don't worry.

Yes, the levels are individually calculated. You could get a good MP gain one time, and a bad next or vice versa for instance.

You're right, it's 30 agility for one attack. I haven't looked into how much the improper weapon counts and how much you get on spirit, but I could check that sometime this week.

[Nightshade]

I guess my only other question then is: How do I know whether a given level is "good" or "bad"? That is, how do those hexadecimal values translate into what the range of stat increases look like?

[Sephirothansylar]

I could be wrong but I don't think their stats are random when you get them, I know for a fact Vahn's starting HP is always 180 and Noa's is 150. I recall starting with 100 AGL on Vahn and the other stats sound the same also, I'm 95% certain starting stats are the same across the board.

Also I don't know about code, but from testing leveling up is extremely random, and nearly impossible to max more than maybe 2/3 stats per level. I guess if you releveled the same level like 20 times+ there is a possibility to max all of them, if it's even possible to get a max increase in every stat.

[Nightshade]

Yeah, I believe you are correct. I know that starting HP's and MP's are always 180/20, 150/10, and 210/40. I am certain HP and MP are fixed at level 1; I am not certain about the other stats, but I believe they are all constant as well.

I get done with office hours in about 10 minutes; I can run some checks this afternoon and verify.

[meth962]

Yeah I was pretty sure they were static too but noticed some discrepancies in the tables. That could just be the way they designed it though. It's just really close to what is shown in the table.

I would definitely not recommend trying to get a good level because yes, the random variation is way too much. And since nothing will max out but Gala's MP, it doesn't pay to watch for it.

The stats are calculated based on those values I posted, which just gets a base value per level and character.

The random variation comes from an addition to each stat.
HP can be +0 to +8 extra
All other stats can be +0 to +2

So Vahn leveling up to 2 has a base value of 36. So the range can be 36+0 to 36+8, aka 36-44.

I could try to give you the formula but it's not a nice one

for HP
rng = random_number % 9 (take the remainder from dividing a random number by 9) so 0-8
for other stats
rng = random_number % 3 (take the remainder from dividing a random number by 3) so 0-2

increase = (Rate - (((High-Low)*Rate)*0x6f74ae27 >> 44)) + rng

Rate = Stat lookup table (the hex ones)
High = The average character max value (Vahn 5000 hp)
Low = The low stat (or starting stat) per character (Vahn 180hp)
0x6f74ae27 = 1,869,917,735 - hardcoded number

Again >> means shifting the bits. It essentially takes the first 2 numbers of the large calculation:
A4BF0 * 6F74AE27 = 47B9E79EEB190
so >> 44 would just take the 47 in hex.

This same formula will not make sense in decimal format:
674,800 * 1,869,917,735 = 1,261,820,487,578,000
and >> 71 in decimal. See? Have to use hex

What I can do however is maybe get the base stat increase of each level by running the formula through something. However, I have to fix some errors before that would be accurate enough.

[Nightshade]

I'm not so concerned about maxing out stats, but for speedrunning purposes, I don't mind having to try 20-30 times to get some good stat increases. I'm just not sure what a "good" level is, even if good is just "above average". Notably, the most important thing is getting the best possible draw on AGL when possible (particularly for Noa), HP for all characters, and getting good draws for Vahn's and Gala's MP stat to start using Juggernaut as soon as possible. Not "perfect in all stats", but just consistently better than average stats.

[meth962]

Second: Does anyone have the precise cutoffs as far as how much AGL is required to use X art blocks, both with and without Spirit / Fury Boosts? I know that it's close to 30 per block without Spirit and 21 per block without, but if someone has more precise cutoffs, I would appreciate that.

Each normal attack is worth 30 agility.
Improper weapons cost 54 agility, that's a 1.8x increase.

270 is indeed the max agility needed for 9 hits, not any less.

I had to go look in the game code again when I found Spirit to not give a flat number. It was close to 1.5x or 1.48x but never consistent. Here's their goof formula...

agility += ((agility << 3 - agility) * 0x66666667) >> 33 + 8

Again an ugly formula, but it generally comes out to just above or just below 1.5x the agility you have. Please note there is no random variation.